Curse

Beoulve · Jun 21, 2005, 02:48 AM // 02:48

Topic.

Eclair · Jun 21, 2005, 02:50 AM // 02:50

Umm, if you're going to argue that water > air, at least present some arguments as to why?

RaK · Jun 21, 2005, 02:56 AM // 02:56

Nope, I'll blind you, then knock you down whenever you try to cast a spell, Gale and Lightning Surge. If there was only 1v1 mode, I'd show you...!!

Deathlord · Jun 21, 2005, 03:10 AM // 03:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beoulve

Topic.

This makes no sense. Are you arguing that water is better than air? Do you think water looks better than air? Do you think water has more letters than air? You can't create a argument/controversial topic if you're not even going to bother making the topic more than one word.

C2K · Jun 21, 2005, 03:26 AM // 03:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaK

Nope, I'll blind you, then knock you down whenever you try to cast a spell, Gale and Lightning Surge. If there was only 1v1 mode, I'd show you...!!

Isn't the YAk's Bend Arena 1v1?

RaK · Jun 21, 2005, 03:30 AM // 03:30

No..4v4..

Vermilion Okeanos · Jun 21, 2005, 06:10 AM // 06:10

with the right build... water can > air... and same thing applies to air > water.

should be like... the unspoken rule by now...

hydrak · Jun 21, 2005, 06:46 AM // 06:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaK

Nope, I'll blind you, then knock you down whenever you try to cast a spell, Gale and Lightning Surge. If there was only 1v1 mode, I'd show you...!!

Last time I checked, this is guild wars, not d2 or wow where you can be a loner and do it 1v1. You need at least 3 other cooperative friends to PvP. If you like to prove things 1v1, go back to d2 or wow.

Ishamael Sedai · Jun 21, 2005, 07:04 AM // 07:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaK

Nope, I'll blind you, then knock you down whenever you try to cast a spell, Gale and Lightning Surge. If there was only 1v1 mode, I'd show you...!!

what is the point of blinding a caster?

BlaineTog · Jun 21, 2005, 07:13 AM // 07:13

My Troll Senses are tingling.

Tuna · Jun 21, 2005, 07:38 AM // 07:38

It depends on what you're trying to do, but generally I think water is a little underpowered. At the very least I haven't found a good use for it.

NoKey · Jun 21, 2005, 06:44 PM // 18:44

Water has the most Defence buff spells in Ele however it uses to many slots you end up being "Look I can tank and take -0!" for around 15~20 seconds? and then you end up dead with no damage dealing spells

Armor of Frost
Armor of Mist
Ward Against Harm
Mist Form
Swirling Aura
Blurred Vision

You could go Deep Freeze + maelstorm + Trident

?

Well as Vermilion said
Water > Air with right build
Air > Water with right build

kungfumonkey2 · Jun 21, 2005, 06:48 PM // 18:48

Shark vs Alligator GO!

Kind of a random way to start a thread dont you think? I think earth would beat both by the way, meh. Just wait the Geomancers are coming!

Eclair · Jun 21, 2005, 07:45 PM // 19:45

It really depends on what the rest of your team is doing and your role in the team. However, I still think water is completely jipped.

In terms of defense, it loses out to Earth, although ward against Harm is a very good ward.

In terms of damage, it doesn't compare to fire, earth, or air.

It has a lot of utility spells, like slow, etc, but Rangers are generally better at that IMO.

Maelstrom is pretty good for disruption, but its long cast time and recharge makes it not very good compared to what mesmers, rangers, and warriors can do.

Can someone post a interesting water elemenatlist build, because right now it seems everything it can do another class can do better.

Freddeh · Jun 21, 2005, 07:57 PM // 19:57

My E/R runs pure water magic right now, however it is my first char through so im still figuring out the game with this char and not really trying to do anything good. Its best use for pvp from what i understand it to be is to slow down those flag runners. You can equip at least 4-5 knockdown/slowdown spells (ice spikes, frozen burst, deep freeze, water trident, and shard storm).

I believe the main problem with water mag is that it is a niche area, not really very strong (80 damage ice spikes is 15 mana, 2 cast time and after armor really doesn't do very much, aka 40 on fighters maybe and 60-70 on casters). Also the spammable spell (ice spear) only has half range so the ele really has to close in to spam that spell.

There are also some nice utility spells, i find blinding vision pretty useful as you can constantly have a group of fighters unable to hit half of the time. Armor of mist is nice for the speed boost.

My current setup (i just ascended and got deep freeze...):
Ice spear, Ice spikes, blinding vision, Shard Storm, Deep Freeze, Armor of Mist, Ether Renewal, Water attunement.

I am thinking about adding either earth or air as a third spec to get some extra damage in.

hydrak · Jun 21, 2005, 08:03 PM // 20:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eclair

Can someone post a interesting water elemenatlist build, because right now it seems everything it can do another class can do better.

Pure water build is nothing more than an average build at best. The best argument here came from our local "air<water" expert, Beoulve, he said "topic".

Ishamael Sedai · Jun 21, 2005, 11:10 PM // 23:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by kungfumonkey2

Shark vs Alligator GO!

Kind of a random way to start a thread dont you think? I think earth would beat both by the way, meh. Just wait the Geomancers are coming!

I agree. Earth ele's can pack on 170 armor and do mean armor ignoring spells. Obsidian does 118 armor ignoring dmg at 16. Add 2 to that and it could be deadlier. Add that to earthquake with a bunch of aftershocks. It could get ugly fast.

Lestat Requiem · Jun 22, 2005, 12:16 AM // 00:16

EARTH RULES ALL FTW !

ONE REASON ! IRON MIST (-90% speed) PWN ENEMY HERO COMING CAPTURE IN HOH xD

YCantUDie · Jun 22, 2005, 07:59 AM // 07:59

Water > Air with right build
Air > Water with right build

isnt that a bit contradictory?....wat if both are right builds

Myodato · Jun 22, 2005, 10:29 AM // 10:29

I am one of the few primary water mages in GW (don't think I've met another one yet). I think one of the key reasons people don't like water is that they are comparing it directly to the other elements, when what you should be doing is comparing it to Mesmers, Necros and Rangers.

It's a utility line, which means it is tactically different to a more standard Ele. Most elementalists are about focusing damage at a single target, a primary water ele should be casting on multiple targets to disrupt and harass in the same way a ranger would. Arguing water > air or vice versa is irrelevant, as they are completely different both in ability and application. I could argue that if a I managed to cast Ice Prison + Maelstrom on an air ele and had Water Trident ready and waiting that I could kill him without him casting another spell, but the chances of that happening in a real PvP situation are too conditional.

My character is a E/N working towards a water/curse pure harassment build. It's potentially very powerful, just as any well constructed build is in this game, but it isn't a standard Ele damage dealer. My overall experience so far suggests water is great when you get it right, and weak when you don't. I guess that applies to any build that focuses on something other than damage or tanking.